Glitches on first race day.

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Glitches on first race day.

Post by badboy » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:14 pm

Took part in my first race today with my two oldest sons. We had to get up at 4:30 am in order to get there in time for practice.
On the second lap of practice we had a runaway, not full throttle but runaway nonetheless. It just took off at half or three quarter throttle with no control from the tx. This happened one time during break in and I thought a battery wire was pinched so I removed and replaced my battery and thought everything was fixed. However today this problem showed up again.
This time I switched batteries but it happened again during a qualifier except this time there was just no control from the tx it did not take off. It just didn't respond to anything.

I have a spektrum tx/rx and have the failsafe set to full brakes so this has me puzzled to say the least. One of the guys at the track said I should rebind the receiver? Another guy said my servos were a little to close to the chassis and flex or a hard landing could cause the servos to glitch. I really need to get this figured out.
What made it really disappointing was that at the start of the first qualifier my son wrecked coming off the ramp and didn't get flipped for about thirty seconds in essence giving the field a thirty second head start. Half way through the qualifier he was up to third and then the runaway happened. No telling where we would have finished without the runaway and thirty second head start.
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Post by badboy » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:20 pm

And just for a mini review the losi 8 3.0 did really well when we had something to compare it to. The novarossi p5xlt was everything we needed and more. Keep in mind I am a racing novice but before the runaway it looked like we could run with anybody. As usual I just need to get a few things figured out.
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Post by Squid » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:44 am

Ahhh, the mystery spektrum glitch. Rebinding may help. A glitch buster may be necessary as well.
A couple things I do with my DX3S Pro:
Make sure as much of the antenna for the receiver as possible is up in the antenna tube, get a longer tube if necessary.
Make sure you cushion the receiver in the box, DO NOT tape it to the receiver box. Place a bit of crumpled blue shop towel above and below it to take the shock from landing and crashing. Be sure to not stuff it in there too tight though.

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Post by badboy » Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:43 pm

Thanks Squid. I will try what you have recommended. However with receiver servo wire and transponder things are already pretty tight. Adding some padding will make it tighter but I'll try.
I haven't researched glitch busters but if it goes in the receiver box there is no room for it. Unless I mount transponder outside receiver box somewhere.
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Post by badboy » Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:03 pm

I rebinded  my transmitter to receiver and now things are worse.  Before starting the vehicle steering works properly throttle works properly.  Throttle returns to neutral after letting go of the trigger everything looks normal.   When I turn everything on and start the vehicle if I go past about one quarter throttle it stays there even if I let go of the trigger. I switched servos and nothing changed.
I have been driving this vehicle for right at 2 gallons so I don't understand how these problems can just develop. Even though this did happen about a month ago but went away on its own.
The radio I am using is a spectrum DX 43 and the receiver is an SR410. Very frustrated especially since I have an HPI 2.4 that I paid probably $30-$40 for on eBay  and have never had a problem with it. This is all assuming the problem is with my radio or receiver and I have looked very thoroughly and cannot find any bad connections or cuts and wires or anything like that
I guess I'm at a point where I need to just start buying things guessing what the problem might be from where I'm  at it looks like I need to buy a new receiver and if that doesn't work a glitch Buster and if that doesn't work then a new radio.  Any suggestions would be great
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Post by badboy » Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:24 pm

After doing some research on squids suggestion for a glitch Buster  it seems like everyone who owns a spectrum has this problem  
There is no way I would buy another spectrum product and I wish I would've came across this information in my research I knew they weren't the best but to suck this bad is unacceptable. Especially if the five dollar glitch Buster fixes the problem why doesn't spectrum fix the problem on the front end
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Post by Squid » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:21 pm

I am not familiar with the DS4, I still run the DX3. I know that most of the cheaper type receivers that were in the RTR vehicles needed the glitch buster. I don't need one on the model I am using. I will have to open up the box on my 8T and get the model number for you. And I feel your pain with the size of the receiver box, my 8T is a 3.0, there isn't much room in there.

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Post by badboy » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:32 pm

The funny thing is I was trying to explain it to my wife and for comparison I told her about the hpi 2.4 and she asked why I just didn't get another one of the hpi tx/rx. I told her I didn't know but that I wish I had.
If I am understanding this correctly. When I throttle there is a voltage drop which causes the glitch. My throttle remains open until the voltage normalizes?  The glitch busters will allow a place for the extra voltage to go so that the servo is not interrupted?
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Post by Squid » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:37 pm

Depending on the servos you are running, it could happen with the throttle servo, but since most people put a much higher performance servo in the steering that is where the issue usually is.
Try running with out the fail safe if it's just the throttle servo causing the issue. I have seen races lost because a fail safe malfunctioned. I have personally never run a fail safe.

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Post by badboy » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:53 pm

I don't use a fail safe other than what's built into the spektrum. I have it set for full brakes.
Both servos are the same. I use hitec HS 5645MG. I know that's a bit much for throttle but I had one extra so I used it. For the most part it has worked fine until now. Also I think I mentioned earlier that when I switched the two servos the same thing happened. I hope the glitch buster works because I can't think of anything else that would cause it.
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Post by Squid » Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:01 am

My gut tells me if the issue is only on the throttle, it has something to do with the fail safe. Generally the brown out issue that requires the glitch buster is on the steering because usually the steering draws more power. But you are running the same servo on both..... Can you reproduce the error on the bench or does it only happen n the track?
If you can reproduce it on the bench, watch the receiver, when the trouble starts, you should see the lights in the receiver go dim for a second. If that happens you need the glitch buster, or possibly a smaller servo on the throttle. Maybe Spektrum fixed the boards to allow more power flow through the steering circuits, and not the throttle as people weren't bitching about the throttle?

If the glitch buster does fix it, and you can find a SR3100 receiver, they are apparently discontinued. I would bet that you won't need the glitch buster. I have run a JR9000T for steering and a 8800T on the throttle in a Savage with the SR3100. I do not know if the built in fail safe will work with that receiver.

Have you called Horizon Hobby yet? They are the distributor, maybe they have some info to help you out. I left out the Plane and Drone numbers figured you didn't need them.
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Post by badboy » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:40 am

Thank you Squid. I can reproduce the problem on the bench. I was just watching the linkage and didn't think to watch the light in the receiver.  When it's revving like that I just want to get it shut off as quick as possible. Also I will call horizon as you suggested.
If it's not a quick and easy fix I am literally going to drop everything spektrum in the trash can and just get a hpi 2.4.
Thanks again
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Post by MonoSavageX » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:10 am

I have a few questions here cause I have a DX4s transmitter and the same receiver in my savage  as what we are talking about here I also run the exact same throttle servo and I personally have never had an issue other than its stupid easy for the rx to become unbound from the tx if you don't turn on/off rx/tx in correct order.

In saying this I have run a glitch buster on this setup from day one because I was having an issue with a savox servo and was hoping it would fix the issue and it didn't (with the savox) I left it and the rig and have never had an issue with the current setup.... I would assume that there is a fix here other than just trashing all your stuff.

And if you do trash, you could ship it to me.... :D lol

But seriously though I would tryout a glitch buster first because that will prevent the power loss which honestly if the receiver is loosing enough power to stick open the throttle but not loose signal from the tx then the failsafe wont kick in but the glitch buster will regulate that power so there is no drop off.
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Post by badboy » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:21 pm

I called Horizon Hobby today and they were very helpful the person helping me seems to think the problem is in the transmitter  he named the item but it was a word I did not recognize
He suggested I open a claim or service order and send the radio and receiver and they would fix since it's still in the one-year warranty.
I ordered a glitch Buster last night and it should be here Thursday I think I will try that and if that doesn't fix it then I'll send the radio in
I'm having my doubts about the glitch Buster fixing it because the problem is getting worse and worse whatever voltage irregularities there  were have always existed in this buggy and there was never a problem before
I guess I was just very disappointed but hopefully it'll be fixed soon
Pardon the grammar I'm driving and there's no telling how the iPhone spellcheck will interpret what I've said
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Post by MonoSavageX » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:36 pm

Yea for sure I mean if the glitch buster works for ya that's great but if its still an issue I would for sure be getting ahold of spektrum especially if the product is still under warranty.
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Post by badboy » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:05 pm

Ive got all my forms and receipts printed and ready to mail but I will wait until I test glitch buster Thursday night to see if that fixes.  I cant help but try to figure this out in my head while waiting for parts.  What I am now wondering is why I cant get it to glitch on the starter box when the engine is not running.
Before starting everything works perfectly and then after starting is when the throttle stays open and the steering is unresponsive.
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Post by Squid » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:36 pm

It only does it with the engine running? The guy that said the servos were too close to the chassis may be on to something then, I have heard of this before. One "fix" I saw was a piece of servo tape between the servos and chassis. I have also been told works is raising the servos with washers or some other shim. Not sure why it's an issue, but I have heard that the servos too close to the chassis would cause a problem. I have never personally seen it though.
Keep us posted on your progress.

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Post by badboy » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:50 pm

Image
Thanks again Squid. During the race I raised the servos a little and then that night a little more with no results.
Things got even more confusing for me tonight. I decided to put my hpi electronics into my buggy. I started it and both steering and throttle glitched. I had my 1300 life battery in. I then put my 1700 life battery in and it ran fine.  The problem is my throttle glitched with both batteries on race day. I included a picture of my rx batteries in case it becomes relevant. This is getting confusing so I will summarize.

Race day
Spektrum tx/rx
1700 life throttle and steering glitch
1300 life throttle and steering glitch

Hpi tx/rx
Today
1300 life throttle and steering glitch
1700 life runs fine. Although at this point I had become confused so I put everything away after about 2-3 minutes of run time. So there is no guarantee that a glitch wouldn't occur  

At every point of glitching the batteries were charged and there was not a range issue.

The reason I use life batteries is because I don't want the additional worry and maintenance of lipo. Apparently life doesn't have a memory and is more forgiving while charging. That being said I haven't used these batteries very much and in my opinion they have been taken care of and charged properly.
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Post by badboy » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:54 pm

One more thing on raising servos. In total I have raised them about 3/32" or a light 1/8". Is that an adequate distance or would some type of material between the servo and chassis be required also?
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Post by Squid » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:14 pm

Not sure how much is needed, I haven't had the issue myself, but have heard others talking about it in the pits.
I wouldn't worry about the batteries, I run the same 1300mAh speedpack, and have had no issues. I am currently running Spektrum servos as my JRs finally gave up the ghost after 6 or so years of use and the LHS at the track stocks the Spektrums.
What I can tell you is that the Spektrum receivers seem to not be able to flow the high current through them to the servos. The glitch buster is a capacitor that stores energy like a small battery. When you plug it in it "fills the gap" in the power that the receiver doesn't allow through. It is right on the power buss of the receiver, so the current does not have to go through the circuitry of the receiver. That is how the operation of it was explained to me, I'm no electrical engineer, but it sounds feasible to me.
I am very interested on the results of the glitch buster, let us know how it works out for you.

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